DS, your comment on my previous post raises a few interesting points that I would like to respond to. Because I anticipate my response to be quite long, so I think it would be better for me to write a post instead.
First of all, thanks for your comment. I usually will not dismiss somebody's view as absurd as long as it makes logical sense. And I must clarify that I'm not against Christianity, I'm just against accepting claims made by a book or a person on face value without considering their validity and sensibility. There are in fact a lot of good teachings in the bible, for eg: the Golden rule: Do unto others as what you would have them do unto you (Luke 6:31) is the teaching that I like the most. The reason why I seldom talk about the good values in the bible is because I believe there are myriads of people out there who are much more qualified than me to talk about these good verses. But if you want to be honest with yourself about your belief, you should also confront the "dark side" of the bible openly and honestly and not trying to escape, hide or rationalise them with speculations. And just to respond to ds about the triviality of some of the bible contradictions mentioned in my letter to my friend, I do agree with you that some contradictions are trivial (I mentioned about this in my letter too and I have read about them on the wiki), but they're not if you demand perfection since the book is known to be "words of God", how can there be careless mistakes given that God is perfect?
I'm actually ok to give all those contradictions the benefits of the doubt (that's why I put them at the bottom of the letter), I'm much more concerned about the moral values emanated from some of the "malevolent verses". Do you know that there was actually a mother who stoned two of her sons to death and left the third with permanent injuries because she claimed that she heard God telling her to do so, exactly like what God told Abraham to do with his son Isaac? Can you blame her for doing so, or call her crazy or insane, why don't you praise her for her "faith" and "obedience" towards God's calling, like how many Christians praise Abraham for his "great faith in God"? I'm glad that I have stimulated your interest to read The book, you should really read it, start from the Old Testament. Like I've mentioned before, it's funny and weird that so many Christians put so much faith on a book that they know so little about. And I encourage you to read it with a critical mind, just like how you read newspaper, I bet you'll discover a whole lot more "interesting" things. If possible, read the English version so that you can access to more original translation.
Ok, I'm a bit out of topic, back to my thoughts on afterlife. I agree with you that happiness does stem from certain biological factors and the exhaustion of the chemical substance will cause one to cease to be happy. But I think there are more things at work, we are often happy or unhappy because of our memory of the past. For eg: we don't always feel happy when we have food to eat everyday, or have clothes to wear, or have a proper bed to sleep on, or a beautiful house to live in, or see our parents everyday, why is that? Because these things are already in our memory, they are not new to us, they are not "surprises" that make us feel happy. If all these are presented to a kid from Cambodia, Myanmar, North Korea or any 3rd world country, I believe the kid will be thrilled. Why do you think many guys still have extra-marital affairs even when they have beautiful wives? It's because of the "surprise" or "newness" that the external parties offer. Unless I will lead a memoryless life in heaven, I don't know how am I gonna be happy perpetually for more than a thousand years. Regarding the time, I believe we are talking about the same thing, it's just that I describe eternity as "unlimited free flow of time". Whether you like it or not, time always exists, but when you have eternal life, time becomes meaningless (Sorry, I don't remember the bible mentions otherwise, maybe you can point out to me).
Oh, you also mention about hell, which I didnt mention in my previous post. Of course I know there is a hell, and I don't think that having a hell filled with more than 80% of the people on earth suffering (since there are only about 10-20% of the people on Earth claim to be Christians) is a way to make me feel happy if I were to be in heaven. Even though I consider my life now as heaven-like, I'm not happy at all when thinking about many people who are still suffering out there, who are forced to work as prostitutes to support their daily meals in Cambodia (I heard this from one of the volunteers), who are forced to give up their dreams and are unable to live as a normal person because of their disability, who are deprived of the love from their parents because their parents are incarcerated-- these are all real life stories happening everyday and every moment. And will I and can I be happy when watching so many of the fellow human beings suffering in perpetuity in hell? I wonder how.
Finally, I would like to present this wonderful song which I like a lot:
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10 comments:
erm.. first of all,
religion = a belief
believer = people who practice their belief
so sometimes what make me feel hopeless is that ppl tend to think that believer = religion. u get wad i mean?? as u know that there's a lot of believer who dont really understand what's their religion is about.
so it's like u saw a christian murdering, then u related it to 'bible say murder is right'.
about the Abraham and Isaac, this incident is indicate that in the future god is also capable of sacrificing his son for the world. as for abraham, he's known as 'father of faith' becoz he strongly believe that life was given by HIM. but then in the end, god stopped him last minute.
(if u read the bible in more detail, u will realize that new testament is actually the reflect of the old testament, they complement each other)
so, the difference in your comparison is that, the mother killed her son vs Isaac wasnt killed.
one critical thing is that, the summary of the bible is the ten commandments, this mother twisted her understanding in her religion, obviously.
about the 'newness' u mention, u can refer to the bible which said that they were exiled from eden to a world with limitation and suffering. so this can be referred as time, space, lifespan, etc etc. So when everthing is unlimited in that world, being happy is like 'breathing' u wont feel xian at all.
yes time always exists, but the dimension that afterlife exist is the other dimension distinct from the dimension where time exist. ok.. this sound very weird but then, as said 'time' is a finite factor. in current world we may think that 'time' is increasing as time goes by, but every living thing or energy form in any part of the universe is sort of like having their own 'clock system' which is in a countdown mode?
And go read up, bible do say tat not all so-called christians may go to heaven, and not all non-believers go to hell. seriously, u really need to read every corner of the 'newspaper' not just the highlighted one..
and about slavery and stuff u mention, it's actually a very interesting part.. go read up the whole chapter which state the origin of slavery..i forget which part, i'll show u when i happen to pass by that chapter again..slaves are normally foreigners, u have to find out the origin and the foreigners as well, and also the consequences the israelites have to bear to have slaves.
and dont relate some of my thoughts to christianity as well, like the one i think tat this world is so meaningless, and i'd rather do nth and die LOL... bible actually say u should actually nourish urself and the ppl around u given ur talent and condition
and time is limited, u've to treasure it by doing sth meaningful, for u will be rewarded or punished accordingly. (of coz i paraphrase, im not a bible, i dont remember every verse, i summarize and remember the main point)
im not implying that u're anti-christ o wad la. i feel that u're more of anti-supernatural-being-existence haha.. i strongly believe there is the existence of a powerful being/creator, normally human give it a name, 'GOD'. this feeling turn stronger and stronger throughout my uni times becoz i realize there's a lot of phenomenon which cannot be explained in whole scientifically.
eg. the big bang theory.
oh gosh, wad a lengthy comment, ok la.. dont take it too seriously, just my 2 cents hahaha...
p/s:im reading eng version most of the time.
oh ya, one more unrelated reminder, the song u posted is unavailable, renew the link.
:)
i do enjoy sharing my thoughts with u though
光良最近代言的quaker oats系列..好好吃... ><
樓上 = =
請認真討論
噗..樓上的, 我認真看了..
只有光良--quaker oats的聯想..腦袋不好..
然後我認真聽了歌...我很想笑..><
我是精神不正常嗎? 為何我覺得那歌像franpi自己唱給自己的...都要聯想到"自戀"這兩個字..
哈哈..這朋友精神獨特啦..所以我才會發笑..哈哈哈哈哈哈...
好好好啊!
aiks..one more thing to say..
The quaker oats ..dun buy salty one...>< maybe my prob la....but really weird to eat salty oats..bleukkk...
有照片嗎
抱歉我很鄉巴佬 很少這種資訊
哈哈
这篇好象变成了食物的文章 哈哈。。
Haha, thanks all for your useful/funny (though some are irrelevant) comments.
DS, your comments really cover a lot of things. I think I need another post to respond to all those issues again. Probably this weekend, coz I'm not so free now. Just rest assured that I'll respond to you, I enjoy discussing with you too.
Ah Cat, thanks for your wild imagination. I never thought that the song could be interpreted as a love song to myself, haha, maybe it is subconsciously, just I don't realise.
And I find that louis has become a master at using 反讽修辞，like describing himself as being "安静”，or “鄉巴佬, 很少這種資訊". I must learn how to read his conversation reversely so that I know how to communicate with him.
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